A path to bankruptcy.

[Sadman]

It would appear from reading the Chronicle, council is going
to continue with the two airport policy!!!!

The fact that they both loose money matters not, after all it's
not their money, it's ours!!!!!!!

Rather than accept the facts (airtransport as we know it is
dying), councillors are just looking to maintain their jobs.

Any one who reads other than the Chronicle, would know
airtransport is in the dulldrums. Two government bailouts of
Japan airlines, smaller airlines going belly-up, airlines world
wide tightening their belts and fuel prices only going one way.

Forget the likes of David Dalgleish and Les MucKan, an
international airport is a pipe dream and they both know it.

This whole decision is not about good business, not about
looking after the interests of ratepayers, it's about getting re-elected.

This whole exercise is going to cost YOU this year, next year and
many years after that. This is all about political expediency


Sadman

[Goodyear]

It would appear from reading the Chronicle, council is going
to continue with the two airport policy!!!!

The fact that they both loose money matters not, after all it's
not their money, it's ours!!!!!!!

How is it not their money? Aren't they also ratepayers too?

[Sadman]

Goodyear,

No, council isn't a ratepayer, council isn't even human.
Did you ever go to school Goodyear?

Sadman

[Goodyear]

Yes Sadman, I did go to school. In fact, I had to walk over 5 miles to school and back each day, and it was uphill in both directions. You tell that story to kids these days and they don't believe you.

[Pink]

Sadman, I don't agree will selling our assets, in my book you have to make them work for you. From what I've read in the Chronicle there are plenty of businesses that want to set up at the airports, especially Maryborough. They want stability and proper lease agreements with the council and it sounds to me as though this is what the Council is going to give them.

I remember when we had a rail corridor from Pialba to the end of the Urangan pier, it was a sad day when the powers that be decided it had to go. There was so much potential for it to be used as a tourist attraction that would have given us something different to other places. It's gone now and there is no way we can get it back, the same thing applies to the airports, especially the one in Maryborough.

Once it's gone we can't get it back and if we, the ratepayers, have to subsidise it so be it. Both the State and Federal Governments subisidise some of their assets and local government really is no different, just on a smaller scale.

[Pink]

Yes Sadman, I did go to school. In fact, I had to walk over 5 miles to school and back each day, and it was uphill in both directions. You tell that story to kids these days and they don't believe you.

Goodyear, I'm biting, please tell me how that works

I remember riding my bike uphill and downdale to school once. When I got there I spent most of the day talking my sister into riding it back home for me.

PS You and I do have one thing in common, we both had miles to go to get to school.

[Sadman]

Pink,

I gather from your post you believe airtransport (in it's current form), has a
long term future?

More to the point, you are happy to pay increasing rates to propup a
failing business?

Tell me, just what do people expect from governments at all levels?
More importantly where do people think themoney comes from?

Sadman

[JimMacKellar]

Sadman, we know where the money comes from. It comes from us. So, if we are happy for some of our money to be spent on keeping both airports, then it should be so.

Pink, I think you are absolutely correct. The airports can be made to pay at least a substantial part of their own way and that is enough to warrant their retention. I believe that the only thing that stands between the present situation and a profitable aviation industry is some inovative thought and a willingness on the part of the Council to go out of their way in ensuring good ideas are brought to fruition. The original MCC plan for the Maryborough airport would be a good place to start.

Sadman, you say that air transport, as we know it, is on the way out. However you do not let us in on the secret of what is to take its place so we must assume that it is still some way off as yet. Learning from history, for example - when cars first started being produced it was still well over half a century until they replaced the horse as the predominate means of terrestial transport, I think it is still safe to presume that small aircraft will still be around our rural region for quite a number of years. Long enough to see you and me out. Therefore I believe that we can develop an aviaton industry that has quite a future before we phase into whatever it is that is still coming.

[Sadman]

Jim,

I'll take your last point first, "aircraft will still be around long enough to see me out".
That is the whole problem, past and present, council's have failed to look far enough
ahead.

Decline of air industry as we know it- Richard Branson states the decline will start to
bite within five years. Brian Souter CEO of Stagecoach a large transport conglomerate
endorses this view. I could cite many other examples of this view, but lets get closer to
home, Boeing shutting down it's Sydney operations and consolidating in Melbourne
"both plants only operating at half capacity". Jetstar just stopped operating out of
Gladston. Enough, or do you want more?

Do yourself a favour Jim, don't put your cash into the small plane industry.

Now to money, our money - Our two airports will never support themselves, in fact
the amount by which they will need support will only increase.
The Winged Warrior on another thread, would like a referendum on recycled water
and while I don't agree, I can see logic in his idea. So let's test you theory out Jim,
let's give the ratepayers al the facts and costings, then hold a referendum on whether
they want to continue to subsidise two airports.

I'll even have a litle side wager on the outcome with you.

Sadman

[JimMacKellar]

Decline of the airline industry and recreational use of aircraft are two very distinct fields, Sadman. Boeing consolidating in Melbourne does nothing to undermine my confidence in the small aircraft sector. They are 2 different fields of endeavour. And you are correct in saying that major aviation sources i.e. airlines, will never generate enough revenue to make the airports profitable. But lets not be blinkered by our reliance on big business eh?

Interesting that the word stagecoach came up in you post. Once upon a time the stagecoach was the principle form of transport in this country. They were on every road and they were pulled by horses. Those that could afford it had their own carraiges and horses, and many people rode their own horses. Then along came the motor car and within a century no-one really thought of travelling any distance by horse.

But are there fewer or more horses in Australia today than there were 100 years ago? I think you will find there are many more. And are these mostly working horses? No, the vast majority are used for recreational purposes. And so it is and will be with aircraft. No matter what happens in the airline business, as disposable income continues to increase in this country, so will the incidence of recreational air use. Put simply, many people enjoy flying and find it a great way to relax. Cater to what people enjoy and you will find a source of income.

[Sadman]

Jim,
While acknowledging the difference between commercial and
private. The problem for both is the same, fuel. The cost of fuel
will kill both.

Thierry Desmarest CEO of Total oil, Chris Skrebowski Independent
and the IEA all put oil production in the period 2012-15 at 94m
barrels per day. Demand is estimated at 123m barrels per day!!!

People are complaining at the price of fuel for their cars, what will
this do to aviation?

Joyflights are vjusr pie in the sky Jim.

Sadman

[skynet123]

The only real issue in relation to the airports is that the users need to contribute to, or preferably pay their own way. As a ratepayer I do not find contributing to the airports, but why should we subsidise businesses to operate from them. The only way for this to occur is to publicly list for rent or purchase the areas and let everyone who wants to use the land to bid for the right. Surely the land should be given to the highest bidder and not the loudest whinger.

Lets get real about this, if the council were to buy a building and then give it to someone at minimal rental allowing them to make a large profit would we all agree. I know I would not.

Make the users pay their own way, and then Council fund the shortfall as an overall community benefit. Lets get commercial about this whole issue. The same applies to the swimming pool and any other council facilities. They can't and probably never will fully pay their own way, but no-one else should profit from the shortfall.

[TheObserver]

It was not that long ago that Maryborough City council, including Anne. Barbara.Julie,and Gerard were prepared to give the rights to the Maryborough airport away for the next 50 years to the flight training school for $1 per year in a desperate attempt to revive the cities fortunes. These are the same people that allowed the infrastructure to fall apart and now we are left with the huge costs of replacing a pool, sewerage system and water system. Which ratepayers are going to foot the bill for this, not just the residents of Maryborough, but the whole Fraser Coast. So who is disadvantaged now, and for Maryborough residents who keep saying that Hervey Bay gets everything, at least the HB council had some forward planning despite their faults

[winged warrior]

Seeing as Sadman has dragged my good name and recyled water objections into this thread (which is not particularly of interest to me), I better give my 2-bobs worth!

Reading all the above reminds me very much of some of the dialogue from 'Alice In Wonderland' ..... an eXXXXcelent movie released here last week In it, Tweedle Dum & Tweedle Dee' continually bicker and argue without ever agreeing or making a decision.

As far as this airport arguement goes then, I just wish SOMEBODY responsible would make a firm decision and actually get on with an action plan ..... far too much time wasting going on as usual!

[winged warrior]

Oh dear!

Pink (our White Queen) is away and now rather than finding the usual collection of "off with their heads" posts here on FFF, EVERYBODY now seems to have disappeared down the rabbit hole! This includes our Mad-hatter, our March- hare, our wise & true-blue caterpiller and our much feared Red Queen.

Don't worry about the magical, self-centred Cat though ...... it's still here in Funderland keeping an eye on things!